The decision to buy a kerosene stove, rather than the more typical propane stove, is mine alone. Jennifer has no responsibility in the decision and trusts me to make the right one.
The original goal, which we will not achieve, was to have a single-fuel boat.
I wanted to find a diesel stove that we could use underway, which meant a diesel stove that gimbaled.
The vast majority of diesel stoves are heavy cast-iron or stainless steel stoves with a fixed chimney. These are not appropriate for use underway on a sailboat.
The Wallas stoves out of Finland are wonderful devices, very high-tech, and very, very pretty.
We found a couple of problems with the Wallas stoves from our point of view:
- They are prohibitively expensive. A stove with oven, here in Seattle, runs about $6500.
- They are electronic marvels, consuming very little power, and lighting quickly. However, when the electronics fail the stove will not even light.
- (2a) We’ve met a number of people who’ve had consistent and ongoing problems with the electronics in these stoves, especially immediately after installation (which I suppose we could live with) and then continuing intermittently throughout the life of the product.
All up, this made the Wallas stoves a nonstarter. Pity, I had originally set my heart on one of these almost art-like appliances.
I did cobble together a design for a drip pot stove that gimbaled.
A drip pot works on a very interesting principle: diesel vaporizes around
450°F (the flash point is 483ºF). Devices that use this principle, like our Dickinson fireplace, heat a small, heavy, metal vessel as part of the starting process, and then slowly add additional diesel fuel.
Because the diesel fuel vaporizes as it enters the vessel, it burns exceptionally cleanly and very hot.
Like all passive fireplaces, it needs sufficient draw, generally through a long chimney, to carry away the burnt gases and draw fresh oxygen to the flame.
I didn’t see why a flexible chimney, with perhaps auxiliary fan to help the draw, wouldn’t work. The parts could be scavenged from other appliances, such as old Dickinson furnaces, and built with steel plate, or stainless steel sheet metal, depending on whether the stove should be a heat safe or not.
The major problem is the amount of time it would take to develop the idea.
Caro Babbo is undergoing restoration now, plus upgrades to allow us to go cruising. There isn’t time in the schedule to undertake R&D.
But, why not a propane stove? They’re inexpensive, the technology is proven, etc.
There are a number of reasons:
- The first is the associated danger. Although most people use them as a matter of course, getting stupid or careless with one will kill you either through an explosion or asphyxiation .
Trident brand LPG solenoid kit. - The proper installation includes an electronic solenoid to cut off the gas flow when the stove is not in use, a sniffer to check for gas leaks, and a locker for the tanks with a separate drain overboard.
- Boats that are designed for this type of stove have a specially designed locker, which must be separate from every other locker and that drains overboard. The retrofits that I’ve liked the best, to be honest, merely mount the tank or tanks either by the mast or on the pushpit out in the open.
- The lines must be run some distance through the boat.
Looking ahead, we’d end up with the international problem where the fittings on the tanks, and even the safety standards, vary from country to country, though adapters are available.
Kerosene (paraffin) is, or at least was, easily available everywhere, has a high flash point and is a high-energy fuel. It is very safe to store, can be stored below decks easily, and has an energy content that rivals diesel, meaning you don’t generally use a lot.
The downside to it is that like diesel, it doesn’t ignite easily. For the Taylors stove we’re looking at, we must preheat the burners with alcohol. If you’re counting, yes, we just introduced another fuel.
We currently use an Origo alcohol, two-burner stove, which we like. It is very safe – alcohol vapor is lighter than air. It lights instantly and easily. And, despite what everyone says, we find the heat to
be very satisfactory for cooking: we routinely cook breakfast for 10 people each Sunday, bake bread and rolls, and frequently make large dinners for six or more onboard Caro Babbo.
The major problems with alcohol are the expense and the amount storage required. We buy alcohol for about nine dollars per US gallon (roughly 4 liters), but it doesn’t last very long. The expense of running the stove is high, and shows up in what we are willing to cook: stews and sauces that take several hours sitting on the stove are completely off the menu, as are dried beans. Getting alcohol can sometimes be difficult, though I’m told 151 proof rum burns very well.
The Taylors stove that we have bought was ridiculously expensive, but half the price of the Wallas.
(Yes, I know the break-even point on a $3000 stove may be long after I’ve passed into the great beyond).
The Taylors stove is a mechanical stove based on early twentieth century technology. It can be fixed with a screwdriver and pliers and is rather bulletproof. On the other hand, learning to work with it smoothly and getting reliable results will probably take some practice.
The goal of a single fuel has long disappeared into the past.
We’ve never used an outboard on our dinghy: we row or we sail. We do have a two-cycle 3 hp outboard with about 20 hours on it. As much as I feel I’ve given in to the dark side, we’re going to take this outboard on our Alaska trip. I think it is as much a safety issue as a convenience issue, but it now means we’re up to four fuels: diesel, kerosene (paraffin), gasoline, and alcohol to start the kerosene stove.
We’ve failed miserably to reduce the number of fuels onboard.
The picture of the Taylors stove accompanying this article is not just any Taylors stove, it is our Taylors stove.
More to follow: John Gardner, of Taylors cookers and heaters, if you read this, would you please comment?
[15-DEC-2019 – We eventually tracked all of the stove problems to using the wrong fuel. One MUST use 1-k Kerosene. Nothing else will work. Marine stores carry it, as do most home improvement stores like Home Depot and Lowes.]
John,
If you ever dare to use 151-proof rum as stove fuel, the god of sailors’ revels surely will smite you!
Judie
John, Remember up in Canada late on a freezing night while out camping, you and I went into a bar looking for something that would burn in that funny wide heater for the trailer?
SOO cold, The Gods of rum would have supplied us with matches!!!
I remember the heater well. It was called a catalytic heater. Did it ever work? I think I remember it working only once.
We have diesel heat on Caro Babbo. A forced air Wabasto, which is quite loud and a Dickenson diesel ‘‘fireplace,’’ which burns diesel using a ‘‘drip pot’’ to vaporize the diesel before burning it.
Hi john,
I just purchased a Taylors 30l. to replace my propane stove, mainly for the same excellent reasons you have , especially
after i saw several boats explode because of gas on board.
I have a difficult question…
Did you ever dismantle the ovendoor and the hinge setup who dissappears in the side wall?
There is a small T formed piece with a spring who attaches the hinge arm inside the wall
I have dismantled the stove for transport and custom reasons, to take it to my boat in the cape verde islands, and lost the detailed photographs in a computercrash sadly, and now i cannot find the way to reconstruct this setup
All the rest is easy and well documented in the booklet who comes with it but not this little part
Any idea?
Btw you can heat up the burners with small gas blower
one can use to solder or to crimp electric connections with more efficient than with alcohol
Happy new year
Hi Stef,
I have not taken the door apart, but I can take pictures of the stove here and post them for you.
Have you used a torch to preheat the burners? If you have not, I can only share my experience: Beware.
The time quoted in the manual was no where near the amount of time I found it took. In the interim, the black kerosene smoke completely destroyed the brand new headliner. No product we have found will remove the soot from the vinyl – I suspect it is because they are both (the soot and the vinyl) petroleum based and the soot has become part of the vinyl.
We found that four minutes or more of preheating was necessary not to have billowing black smoke. I did heat until the top of the burner was cherry red, but that was not sufficient. Four minutes or more is what it took. As you may have read, we used the torch because the alcohol cups went missing – either I sent them to the reseller we bought the stove from when I sent all three burners back, or I just lost them when I sent the burners back. About the time I learned how long the preheating actually took, the replacement cups arrived. At the end of our 2017 trip the burners clogged and stopped working again… I think I know why and will try again this year. If the burners fail again, we will replace the stove with either a Swiss-made kerosene stove or a Wallas Diesel.
The torch we were using was propane, rather than butane. Does butane burn hotter? (The answers on the web are confusing as hell, but according to this, they burn the same: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/flame-temperatures-gases-d_422.html.)
Regarding the stove door, you might contact John Gardner at mail@taylorsheatersandcookers.co.uk He rebuilds and sells Taylor products.
Have a great New Year. We arrived back on board a few days ago. I have much catch-up writing to do.
Please either send a link to your website, or tell me about your boat.
–john
Gas soldering blower to be refilled with small lighter gas cans like this
http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1742195&cp=2568443.2568450.2628094.2629278.2629347
StefD
G’day, interested in your neat stove, one similar I have just scored (I am a kero devices afficianado).
It is preheated with methylated spirits (you call it alcohol – both correct, though mine is slightly less so: in Australia our metho came with a little methanol in the mostly ethanol mixture, to put off drunks from getting at it; this is no longer the case, as they nowput a bittering agent into it to repel its consumption).
Now, mine is s simple Primus-type, with cups for the metho, and the works, once hot vaporises the kerosene liquid into a very clean-burning hot and economical fuel. And safe.
I once took my family for a 2-moth trip in a small two-wheel drive stationwaggon through about 13000 kilometres of outback Australia. Avoiding taking a heavy possibly dangerous gas bottle in the car, I took two single burner primus stoves and a Tilley lamp which satisfied all a our cooking and lighting needs for the trip. A gallon of kerosene, 1/2 a litre of metho and I was never going to run out of gas halfway through cooking a meal and 300 kms from a refill. Why my friends wont do it I cant fathom, they think I’m a dinosaur, they have to take gas (and of course the guzzling 4wd to carry all their paraphernalia).
Anyway, check out this brilliant little stove – an oven that I have had heated up to 300C (570F), enough room to cook a small roast and vegies, cakes, scones, bread etc. And two cooktop burners.
As you know, these burners do not take much trouble at all to use, and you have no smoky crossover to running on kero (I use jet fuel – same stuff).
Anyway, would like to send you a couple of photos of a device that I recently paid 250AU for, so cant see within this forum have to post photos, so if you send an email address to me at kneestothewind@hotmail.com I can send some. And finish the story.
Cheers, dave in oz
Reply. Dave I’ll send you my email address direct.
A stove the will actually run jet fuel would be of terrific interest. As you read (or perhaps will read), this stove will only run on 1-K.
We had the devil’s own time of it.
If you read through the blog, you’ll find many pieces on the trials we endured before the people on the cruiser’s forum set us straight.
https://carobabbo.com/2018/10/23/what-went-wrong-this-year/
Look for my e-mail.
–john
Hi John-
Did you ever sort the Taylor’s? I’m looking for one to replace my propane combo.
Cheers,
Jeff
S/v Broad Reacher
Hi Jeff,
Yes, we did.
The problem was the wrong fuel. It is imperative to use 1-k kerosene, which is easily available in five gallon jugs for heaters. We found it in Ketchikan really cheap in a large pyramid in the local Fred Meyer. We’ve had no problems since then.
I wrote about it here: https://carobabbo.com/2018/10/23/what-went-wrong-this-year/
BTW, we should be in the Bay Area sometime late summer on our way south.
How did you find our blog?
Best,
–john
Don’t come to the tropics. You’ll not find 1-k kerosene or anything like it. Kerosene cook down here is a disaster!
B Cripps,
Thanks for the advice.
Caro Babbo is in Honolulu right now. (Jennifer and I are in Berlin and NY, respectively.)
We’ve been able to find it in Home Depot stores in Honolulu without problem. If we head that way, we’ll need to bring a lot and figure something out. We did find that we cooked a remarkable amount less than we do in the PNW.
BTW, how did you find our blog?
I worked at a mine in Alaska they used jet A fuel in all the vehicles summer & winter much less problems. They left the trucks running all winter 24/7.
Hi Phil,
It was the Taylor’s stove that was the problem. The burners in the stove would clog on Jet A. 1-K kerosene is water white – it was called that in the hardware store when I was a kid growing up, water-white kerosene. Jet A is yellowish and not as clear as 1-K. I’m told that is because it is not as pure as 1-K. Also, Jet A has toluene and other compounds to make it burn hotter.
Military and other vehicles will run on Jet A as part of the single fuel program the US military instituted in the 80s(?).
Since moving to 1-K, the stove has run perfectly.