‘‘ Jet A is nothing but kerosene,’’ was a statement that we received over and over again from pump jockeys on our Alaska trip. On the web all the sites I found before we left concurred, JET-A is nothing but kerosene.
[15-DEC-2019 – We eventually tracked all of the stove problems to using the wrong fuel. One MUST use 1-k Kerosene. Nothing else will work. Marine stores carry it, as do most home improvement stores like Home Depot and Lowes.]
However, all three burners on the stove had pretty much stopped working by the time we returned to Lake Union. John Gardner, from whom I bought the stove, had suggested that we not clean the burners as suggested at the websites, and we did not. I came to believe that was the problem.
John offered to rebuild the burners for free, because they were giving us problems.
When I pulled burners out to send them to John, I found that bottoms of each burner were clogged with carbon, they had ‘‘coked.*’’
Finally, some time around Christmas I sent the burners off to John in the UK. This week I received an email telling me that the burners had run at too high a temperature and they all must be discarded.
This brings us to three questions:
- Why were the burners running too hot?
- Why should it matter?
- Should I replace the stove?
Number three first: Unless something changes, yep, it’s time to replace the stove. Properly renovated, it may get close to what I paid for it. But not in calendar 2017. A Wallas replacement stove would be $6000 dollars. Even if I got the $3400 I paid for the Taylor, I would still need another $2600 plus installation parts, so $3000 total. That’s not in this year’s budget.
John Gardner tells me parts of the burners ‘‘ruptured’’ from the heat. I can’t figure this out. There is very little inside the burner. John and I will speak on Monday.
The burners are actually made in Germany (and are referred to by Taylors users as the ‘‘German Burners’’) by Hanse and are about 120€ each, plus shipping. Not cheap, so we’re talking about $400 in parts to repair the stove… A seriously unexpected cost.
Talyors wants £135 per burner.
The Euro is seriously down, it seems. (The Euro was originally supposed to be par with the dollar.) 120€ is only about $127 dollars. Not too bad.
£135 is $167 dollars, however. Quite a difference. An extra burner for free, when I buy three.
Why were the burners running so hot and what is the difference between Jet-A and Kerosene (which is, actually, #1 diesel)?
Jet-A is Kerosene with additives: Tolulene and other very high surface pressure solvents. They make the fuel burn hotter and reduce build up. So, yeah, we can run #1 diesel, but not Jet-A.
One purpose of the trip was to have a shakedown cruise and learn. We continue to do learn.
I must admit, I do like cooking on this stove. It is one of the few stoves I have ever cooked on that could actually sauté. But then, perhaps that was because I was running Jet-A rather then Kerosene/#1 Diesel/paraffin.
It still remains, what ruptured because of the high heat?
Looking at the exploded parts replacement parts at the left, the bottom most piece is the coiled gunked-up piece we could see from the bottom of the burner. Above it is, I think the balancing jet assembly, but I’m really not certain.
What could the higher heat have reasonably done? The burner is made of brass. Brass melts at roughly 1700º F, over 900ºC. I would have thought that the burner couldn’t get that hot, but if it was actually coking the fuel, perhaps it has.
I don’t believe any of the unit is soldered, but if it is, the solder might not hold. When I speak with John on Monday, I’ll learn what I can.
19-FEB-2017 Toplicht is the German company the sells the Hanse burners. However, for the US, the reseller is Sea Sure in the UK. As is very common, the parts are the roughly same price in the UK as in Germany, but in Pounds Sterling, rather than Euros. £115 or $147 versus $127 from Germany.
I’ve also started looking at the Swiss stove Bertschi. The technology is newer and the prices are much less. Selling the Taylors might yield a Bertschi for free.
*Coking is the process of heating coal to very high heat without oxygen. The impurities will vaporize leaving pure carbon, called coke.
Thanks for your article John,
I too share that love hate relationship with those stoves and rile at the exploitation of the suppliers, especially when we have to do so much tinkering and maintenance to keep these things running smoothly ourselves.
I am about to launch the boat after a big refit and now on the onerous task of servicing and re-commissioning the stove. I have a pile of four ‘dead’ burners! I am about to install the last three which may father passed on with the boat and cooker. The idea of paying £145+ for a burner really hurts.
I have attempted many things to keep the burners working, baths of baking soda, vinegar … etc etc I must be in the many hundreds of times I have dissembled and reassembled burners!
The issue with most of the failed burners is small holes, as the burners are copper(?) surely there must be a way of braising the holes closed?
I am really interested in hearing the report and result from your pal John, how was he intending to repair the burners.
Many thanks,
Gavin
Hi Gavin,
I posted a request on Cruiser’s Forum and received many replies – http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f55/taylors-030-kerosene-stove-ongoing-issues-202989.html
The major issue for us was using the wrong fuel. We were using #1 Diesel and Jet A. In the US, #1 diesel, while it is Kerosene, is not as pure as necessary, and Jet A, while not also as pure, also has naptha and Toluene added, so it burns very hot.
For fuel, it seems you need 1-k kerosene, which is not cheap here. 1-K is ‘‘water white,’’ which was a designation for kerosene when we used Kerosene lamps during power outages in the rural US.
We have switched in the last few weeks and things are going well, so far. A burner, which I suspect would have clogged up by now is still running well.
Regarding repairing your burners, I expect that braising will not be viable as the operating temperature for burners is so high that the braising would melt. The burners don’t seem to be copper, but some alloy.
John and I had a bit of a falling out. He never cleaned the burners, telling me instead that the castings were cracked. I bought new burners from him at a high price and had to pay $45 dollars in wire xfr because he will not accept paypal. Not a good ending.
I now buy parts from https://www.sparesmarine.co.uk/ who provides excellent service, accepts credits cards and the like.
Read other posts in our blog for the continuing story and the read the cruiser’s forum thread.
Other people posting in Cruiser’s forum say that they have not had to do the level of cleaning that you and I have had to do. They say it is because of the fuel I was using, so that a move to 1-K Kerosene should fix this.
I also found that soaking the burner in kerosene seemed to clean varnish that had built up in the burner better than the other cleaners, though I am not certain whether it was enough.
I’ve visited your website. Do you also have a blog or site about your boat and efforts?
Please feel free to correspond directly with me. We’ll be leaving the boat in Alaska for ten days while we return home to attend to some personal things, so we’ll have easily accessible email.
–john
The burners can be a challenge, but my problem has been trying to get them back on the base and not have them leak. When I say leak I mean at 15 psig and the soap test the smallest bubbles take a couple minutes to appear. May not sound like much but when the burner has heated up fine puffs of vapour will escape. It stinks up the cabin.
I have cleared a couple clogged, (coked) units using alcohol and a drill with a twisted wire. Worked great. Saying that, replacing the unit is easier, and they are relatively easy to find.
Hi Dale,
We haven’t had much trouble getting the burners to seal when we have removed them for cleaning. Tightening up the nut seems to have always worked, and when we’ve left the boat for a few weeks with the pressure on (Something we try not to do), there has been no leakage.
We found that when we (finally) switched to 1-k Kerosene (Paraffin), the smoking problems went away. We’ll be replacing the head liner for third time this spring, which we hope will be the final time. http://carobabbo.com/2018/10/23/what-went-wrong-this-year/
How are you preheating your burners? I have switched to a propane torch, which always works, as long as I preheat long enough. I am preheating for three minutes. With the alcohol, the burners are always properly preheated but it is more expensive and the alcohol gives off tremendous amounts of carbon monoxide.
ik heb hetzelfde probleem , maar de brander is gescheurd ( 4 legs) er is een nieuwe brander in omloop ( 2 legs) die ik nergens kan bemachtigen, alsook de de 4 legs brander niet leverbaar is er een adres waar ik de brander direct kan bestellen
graag hierover bericht
hartelijk dank
luke
Translation from Google:
have the same problem, but the burner is torn (4 legs) there is a new burner in circulation (2 legs) that I can not get anywhere, as well as the 4 legs burner not available there is an address where I can order the burner directly
please report
thank you
luke
Hi Luke,
As you read, the answer to making the stove work properly is 1-K kerosene.
The company I order parts from is http://www.sparesmarine.co.uk/
The support is excellent, all of the parts are on line and they have flat-rate shipping, anywhere in the world for $25 USD.
I just stumbled across this blog. I have 2 boats with these stoves. One stove was taken out of a derilict, no idea how old it is but OLD.
The new Hanse burners work very well. I had a couple of the 4 leg burners but they were problematic, I think too much mass and they would cool down if you tried to simmer.
There is a site, camp burned or something, where they show how to define a burner. The force air through it while getting it REALLY hot. Looks like a jet engine afterburner. Hard to imagine you got the burners “too hot.”
https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/companion-kerosene-stove.37946/
To seal the base I use some Permatex copper – ultra high temp gasket material. It will burn if you have some exposed, but never in the joints.
I’ve not used anything other than K1 but once did get some bad fuel that turned brown when heated and junked up the burners.
The boats previous owner only used a propane torch to light the stove, removed the alcohol cups. I have replaced them and they work fine. But there are different sizes and the really small one doesn’t hold enough alcohol to do a proper pre-heat. I have used jam jar lids to make a preheat cup while waiting for proper cups.
Howard, I followed your links. Thanks for the info.
I have found that the burners are quite variable in how much heat they need to work properly. We are now only using a torch, the cost is much less and we found that the denatured alcohol we use sets off our carbon monoxide alarm in a big way. We have one torch that will be ready in a little less than two minutes and another that needs close to three.
That you had trouble simmering, I think, speaks to the lose manufacturing specs we’re seeing with amount of energy needed to preheat the burners. We have never had a problem simmering, so I expect there is large variation between units. – If we were real need-to-know engineers, we’d weigh the burners to assess the variability. I’m not one,though.
Another reader, Luke, who commented just before you did is having trouble finding burners in stock. If you know of a current source, could you reply?
Finally, tell us about your boats.
Thanks,
–john